The Ukraine and countries of the Former Soviet Union (FSU) have some of the most beautiful women in the world. The problem is the women there know their value. It may be a playground of beautiful women, but it is not for the faint of heart. I have eight months of experience there in three different years. What I learned is that you have to be tough as nails. All the girls are scamming to some extent. I hear there must be some good girls, but I’m not sure how good the good girls really are. Probably just not as bad as the real bad ones! After all this time on the ground I realized that the only way to win in the Ukraine is “Con the Conner”! This kind of Game may not appeal to everyone, but if you have balls of steel, this may be for you. What follows is a discussion about this from the www.Rooshvforum.com which occurred about a week ago. I’ve included my posts and answers to other people’s posts. I’ve expanded some of my answers and added some additional information too.
Bottom line: if you have a killer instinct and are not a sucker (e.g. if you’re a Luigi from my She Is Bitch story), Ukraine is better than the USA. Personally, I’d pick Ukraine over the USA because I can know I can “scam” those girls before they scam me and get that sweet pussy before investing much.
If you’re an average dude who just wants a nice girl, Ukraine will eat you alive. Go to central Europe instead.
I like Roosh’s brief summary, that tells you how to play it. Ukraine Game is “Con the Conner”! On my first trip of 10 days to the Ukraine I thought I was the supreme player in Fantasy-land of barbie dolls. After my trip ended and I returned to the US of A, I realized that I was the one that was being scammed or gamed and not the one doing the Gaming. Over that next month, one by one my harem of girlfriends just disappeared. They had replaced me with the latest bunch of guys (suckers) that just arrived in the Ukraine.
I then realized, I had been scammed. All that love and affection was an act. These girls are not honest. It is no coincidence that FSU (Former Soviet Union countries) supplies more prostitutes around the world than almost any group of counties.
The most interesting thing is that all the marriage agencies specialize in the countries that have the most lying and cheating girls in the world: like Ukraine, Russia, Philippines, Thailand, and some Latin American countries. This is not a coincidence. These girls specialize in giving the appearance that they love the men they are dating, just to suck money out of them on a short term basis. The more sophisticated and cunning girls suck men dry using Long Term Game. There is many a man that ended up broke or ruined his life with a woman from one of these countries. You are playing with fire, because many of these women have no morals!
You better be an experienced player and have balls of steel or you’ll be eaten alive!!!
Those “prostitutes” are a victim of circumstance. I guarantee you half of them have a higher education that is not recognized in western countries and doesn’t allow them to forge a proper career.
Not everything is as you see on the surface.
And those “scamming” women are using men in the same way that men are using them.
Western men come to the FSU knowing they can exploit a girls position of financial dependence and want of a better life elsewhere instead of earning her attraction through a natural courtship based on looks and personality.
Today i left Kiev and at Borisopol airport I saw a beautiful 20 something girl crying while her 40 something fat bald American to be husband was bear hugging her. She was crying as she was forced into letting this creature touch her for the next 3 years just so she could get out of the Ukraine. And you really feel sorry for the fat guy? I walked away praying he gets burnt by her. If you had to spend 5 years married to a socially retarded obese woman to escape poverty you would be very bitter my friend. It’s not cool being exploited in any capacity. You would become the scammer.
Wolverine’s first mistake is that he believes the marriage agency propaganda that these women are just looking for a good man and want to leave the country. Most Ukrainians do not want to leave the country. In fact, only a small percentage wants to leave.
I understand their circumstances are not perfect, but if you think you can save them, Good luck! I once believed this. I had Long Term girlfriends in both Ukraine and Philippines. I even thought they may be the ones to marry (never done it before). Their cultures are just too different once you get to know them.
I am not fat, and not ugly. Both times, after treating both girls very well, I caught them cheating! It’s a product of their corrupt cultures. Note, Philippines is a Catholic country, so it’s not the fact that FSU is supposedly godless.
There is a 90% divorce rate in Ukraine and Russia. If you believe they can make good wives, good. I don’t believe it anymore. I’d love to think that i could find a wonderful woman from one of these countries but I don’t think it is very likely, with divorcee rates like 90%. I don’t feel sorry for 20 year old w/ that fat 40 year old Western gentleman. She’ll make his life a total hell for the next 5 years. Just wait and see!
If you are a better gamer than them, then you’ll win! That fat 40 year old is not and he’ll be the big loser in the end, when she files for spousal abuse. These woman know all about that. Instant asylum in the USA. If not, maybe she’ll have a kid and get a big child support payment for the next 20 years and then hookup with her young Russian boyfriend. It happens all the time.
I have good game and can blow through party girls, working girls, porn stars, strippers, barmaids, and college students like a rock star goes through cocaine. But, I come to this Forum now not as champion! NOPE … I am in “look at yourself in the mirror” mode these days. My train was derailed 3 months ago in a little town in Poltava, Ukraine. And, I am still trying to: 1) get over it. 2) see the truth of it. 3) decide what I am going to do about it.
Poltava is a small city in between Kiev and Kharkov. The fucking mail order bride industry is there, and those tours have created a negative stereotype that is difficult to overcome. So, I stayed in a nice little flat for 27 days for her – ONE GIRL. By the 3rd day, I dropped almost all game. I was not PW, but I was not myself either. I was on “perfect behavior. She was more than cautious, and at the same time absolutely consistent and attentive. How would I characterize my time with her (and her family)? SLOW and VERY human. NO GAME / NO PASSION / NONE of the stuff that has consumed the last 4 years of my life. So why do I like her so much, or at least cannot get her out of my mind? I have been with a boat load of beautiful women. She is a 9 / 10. She is “nice” but not the life of the party. She is smart, but not a “rocket scientist.” I think it is her old fashioned nature. This woman is not easy! She has high self-esteem (ALL EE RW have high self-esteems … and I am sure that is what attracts me.) I will go back and see this one, just so I do not live with “what ifs.”
But, it is good to know that other capable men have gotten tripped up in Ukraine too. If you are getting action in UKRAINE as a foreigner fast, it is not because you are “pretty”. It is not because you are good at “game”. It is because the woman wants sex, or wants something else. It is very, very transcriptional there. If you meet a “good girl” … be prepared to go back to “Leave it to Beaver” times. It is an uphill battle for sure. I think you have to make a real investment in time and money -the human things that cannot be gammed – before you even can approximate fully sincerity and long term compatibility. No Quality Fast Food in Ukraine my friends. The good girls that are beautiful are HIGH on the food chain, not low. I will know more shortly
ZonZon, I know about Poltavia. First, the Ukraine is not “Leave It to Beaver”. It is exactly the opposite. Dude, you are cuntstruck! The girl is a 9 and half your age. The girl is wrong for you. You have her on a pedestal. 90% of the girls in the Ukraine are NOT innocent. If she’s not putting out she doesn’t like or love you. Don’t fall for it. Move on to someone who does care about you. I don’t think I met a single innocent girl in the Ukraine! Good luck!
I agree with this 100%.There’s a good chance shes getting regular action from a local guy while she’s dating her potential to be husband (you).
Nothing with women is as it seems.
If she’s avoiding physical escalation i would withdraw.
If ZonZon, doesn’t move on he’s about to be eaten alive.
WELL … PLEASE DON’T FEED THE ALLIGATORS. Although the women can have thick skin in Odessa and Kiev, to the point where authentic communication is not really possible in the first place, there are women that are complete, and moral, and do not fit these generalizations. IN FACT, the hardest part of knowing (notice I did not say “gaming”) Ukrainian woman is overcoming the negative perceptions of the foreigners that have gone there before you! Guilt by association is a bitch.
The problem is not the bad guys that came before you hurting your chances. You are not guilty by association. The problem is these guys, spoiled these girls. So it makes it a lot harder for a normal guy to compete because the girls are so spoiled with money and gifts.
You make it sound like the problem with the Ukrainian girls is the Western guys are corrupt and that is why the girls are corrupt. I can tell you they were corrupt long before the first Western man came to the Ukraine. Ukrainians/Russians don’t trust each other. The only people they trust are their immediate family members. Their corruption comes from within: the culture of the old USSR.
my experience is that if a girl sees that you don’t have lots of money, she won’t try to milk you and will appreciate even the smallest of gestures. but if the same girl sees that you’re rich, she expects you to pay for everything will order the most expensive thing on the menu, invite her friends and expect you to pay, etc.
its relative really
If they don’t like you, then they go after your money immediately. If they like you they won’t try to use the hell out of you. They like conspicuous consumption, like ordering much more food than they could ever eat. Many the girls will try to test you to see what they can get away with from the start. If you are not strong they will walk all over you.
Also, from what i’ve heard, FSU women see themselves as in high demand. Think about it, men from all over the world come to the FSU to try to meet them and they are well aware of the fact. They see American and other women in the world as being deficient, since men from these countries come to try to marry them. Plus the American, etc… women that come to Ukraine and prove them right certainly doesn’t help the cause.
basically, they know they have very high value in the dating world, but also know that their market value drops off quick.
This was the problem BigAlexBoss, a 32 year old man from England, who only only wanted to date 9s and 10s, encountered. The beautiful girls have tons of options. See my other post on this subject:
I’m don’t think there are any untapped 10s in villages anymore. Even in faraway villages these girls can now play the internet while they still have several local boyfriends. Even they know their value!
Dating / Marriage Agencies
jimukr104 stateswhen discussing his wife when he first met her:
She got a chance to at work and she was a scammer until i made her a women
I, personally, loved going to agencies (I went to 3). I mean, to be honest, if you are decent looking and a good guy, you stick out very positively. Of course, there is a little uphill climb because of the pollution associated with “agencies”. But, a good idea for a real guy looking for a real woman and a LTR. BAD IDEA for pick-up.
Well as an almost former partner of an agency here’s a tip: do not let them bait and switch you. If they recommend someone , its probably a girl who makes them money over and over and over again, pick someone else.
Agencies write letters for the girls to men. I signed up for a few agencies 5 years ago when I was in the Ukraine. What is funny is at one of the Agencies, I never even posted my photo, but I still get good looking model quality girls sending me letters of interest that are dying to meet me. These letters are nothing more than bait to get me to pay to communicate with girls that probably have no knowledge that I even exist!
I know this is true, because my Ukrainian girlfriend told her Agency to answer letters for her, because she didn’t have time to come by the agency to read letters or write replies. So many guys wrote her letters and the agency wrote back flowery letters professing her interest, maybe affection, and maybe even love. She told me a foreign man came over to meet her once and she had never even sent him a single letter. The Agency had been doing all the writing. She didn’t meet him because she didn’t like the guy’s looks. So the Agency just made up a lie and then fixed him up with some other scamming girls while he was in town for the week. I asked her didn’t you think it was dishonest that the Agency scammed that man? Her answer was, “the owner is a friend of mine. She has two children, and has to make money some way!” So to the average Ukrainian woman, conning men is an acceptable way to make a living in the Ukraine!