PUA gurus that teach other young guys, profess to have been nerds in high school and college. But once they discovered PUA they now have “seen the light” and know how to Game girls. I think the biggest Game is being played on the inexperienced guys that believe all these bullshit claims. I don’t understand why this Born-Again logic is helpful. So the PUA confesses, “I was a nerd and didn’t get laid until I was 29, but now I found Game, and I’m a “born-again” PUA instructor.”
I for one don’t want to learn tennis from a 29 year old guy who never picked up a tennis racket until he was 27, when he discovered tennis! My guess is I could learn a lot more from a guy who picked up his first tennis racket at 6 and played on a high school team, then on a college team, and now he’s teaching lessons. This is a guy I think I could learn from, but not some “born-again” tennis player.
So let’s just say you get a “precocious” instructor, and he was only a virgin until he was 23, but now he’s a Pick Up Artist at 24. “Duh, I don’t think you can teach me anything, except how you managed to stay a virgin until you were 23. That would be a funny story!”
I grew up before there ever was a PUA. I leaned Game by trial and error. I learned on the street corner, you could say. There was no PUA. I did things that worked and I eliminated things that didn’t. I repeated what worked. I had my first girlfriend at 6 years old, a tomboy, and I kept learning about girls. I learned what girls liked, what made them laugh, what excited them. These were not tricks, but a process of becoming a desirable person that girls wanted. So by the time Mr. PUA Guru teacher had gotten laid at 23, I had been going out with girls for 17 years! That’s right 17 years of experience! By the time I was 12, I had “felt off” my first breasts even though there wasn’t much to feel. By 13, I had my hands in a girl’s pants and then at 16 I had my first sex! This doesn’t include playing doctors at a young age too.
So by the time Mr. PUA Guru got laid his first time at 23, I had been banging girls for 7 years. That’s a lot of practice and going out with a lot of girls. So I for one wouldn’t want to learn Pick Up and seduction from a 24 year old nerd! So why would you?
One other thing, that I’m 100% sure of, is that the best PLAYERS are not out there teaching PUA! They are staying silent and don’t have the time to teach because there is little money in it. They are too busy in the arena: playing and succeeding!
PUA is just like the Get Rich in Real Estate, Multi-Level Marketing, Passive Income, 4 Hour Work Week, and other such schemes with grandiose claims that say you can give someone your money and they can teach you to be an expert at picking up girls and getting laid in a short period of time.
Love it!
Here is something I have realized over the years. People don’t really change that much over the years and it is actually INCREDIBLY hard to change one self. The story of a guy who a virgin till his mid twenties and suddenly turned into a major player – it’s probably not true. Not saying they don’t exist, but that they are extremely rare.
Look at girls who are 8-12 years old. Even at that age, you can predict with a very high degree of certainty which girls will turn out to be good looking or not in life. I think even core personalities of people rarely changes after middle-high school or something.
I have largely been a guy who likes to live in his own world and not comfortable in large groups. Tried a lot to go the other route for a number of years (unsuccessfully) but I am now comfortable in the fact that I am who I am.
I have always had an extremely high level of IQ and creativity. It was largely apparent from a very young age. It’s still true even now. A lot of other people can try as hard as possible, but they will rarely get as good as me unless they put in an enormous amount of effort.
Similarly I think guys who were going to get good with chicks generally do so at a very young age (like what you just described). Others will never really become “players” like what PUA promises they can.
In my own case, I realize that even from very early on in my life, a bunch of girls have liked me. The first time a girl proposed to me was in the 1st grade! However, I have never had the energy or personality to seriously chase girls. Most girls who I have got have come to me.
Once again, I tried chasing girls for a while but I just couldn’t continue with it. I tried sleeping with average girls just to increase my notch count but couldn’t do it. These days, I get girls infrequently but usually they are very cute. In almost every case, these girls chase me.
I think people should realize that they won’t probably change their fortunes drastically. Stick to your strengths. You will go much farther in life.
Johnny, thanks for sharing your story with us. I think you are on the right track. I do believe you can improve yourself in areas that will help you get women, but knowing your strengths and using them is the smartest way. If you’re an intelligent guy, then you will do better with girls who like intelligent guys. Many PUAs are lonely insecure guys who are more concerned with bragging to their bros’ about their notch counts, than actually finding happiness with the right girl. This is why PUA teaches nothing about relationships.
Dude, the first commenter is rearedtd.Men who sleep around are gross and women warn other women (like those Don’t Date Him Girl sites and such and also in person) to stay away from Mr DirtyDick.Guys like Roissy who never get laid have to base their perceptions of women on television, movies, and fictional works to come to their silly conclusions.He and others like him seem to think that we ladies really DO shame each other for being slutty (try a group of women high-fiving each other for picking up a young, hot piece of mancandy, instead gentlemen) and we also back each other up (ie: lie to guys about what kind of chick our friend is) right along with the fact that we ALL play sweet, not-slutty girl just to fuck with men when we’re out and then deny them.Women are no different than men in our needs, our sexuality, and our preference for a variety of partners. Science and Anthropology back that up and no pseudo-science like Evo Psych can change what the hard sciences have already proven. No matter how grand their delusions are.A man who sleeps around CAN land a decent woman. But only when he’s honest about it, isn’t a cheater, and is accepting of HER sleeping around (in the past) as well.A guy who thinks the mere act of sleeping around is sexy to women is practically rearedtd. More importantly, a man who thinks that sexual conquest is important in life or makes him more/less manly is pathetic at best pitiful at worst.His looks, his intelligence, his honesty, his character, his work ethic, his family, his priorities, etc are what makes him manly or not manly .His being a slut and wanting a virginal woman just makes him a delusional douchebag and a high-risk man to date (ie: cheating, STDs, unwanted pregnancies, potential deadbeat father, irresponsible, immature, etc).The only thing worse than women giving men advice on how to date women is Men telling women what women like/want.Way to prove your PUA-hypocrisy is rampant there, guys.Roissy is old and off the dating market. He has no chance of bearing children (no woman of childbearing age wants a grandpa for her potential children from his old, defective sperm) and the fact that he’s never been married OR had kids by the age of 44 pretty much makes him a HELL NO! to 90% of lucid women.So why is he still trying to give dating advice to men who are actually still on the market? I don’t get that part at all.He’s a darwinian, social, and romantic failure in every way ..and yet .there he is. The blind leading the blind, as they say.By the by ..Roissy ALWAYS deletes any/all comments from men or women who oppose him, insult him, question his accuracy or methods, or make him look all around stupid. There are TONS of female AND male bloggers (like Hugh Ristik) who tried to rationally engage him and ask him a few questions and he deleted the comments, refused to answer, and banned them.A guy who’s so sure of his maxims and advice certainly wouldn’t mind open criticism and questions about his blog, now would he? Of course not.
I am going to disagree with some points.
You have to understand NOT EVERYONE has that privilege of a stable life. Being in one town for a while. One guy I know who is good with women in his 20s was a teenage virgin. His life story?
Born in another country, moves to France and lives there for 5 years, comes to the US at the age of 11 and lives there for the rest of his life, learns to speak fluent English at the age of 12. The guy went to an All Boys school (strict parents) and was never really allowed to “grow”.
It was painful to hear his story but now the man is a WILD animal at the age of 22 because he knows his clock is ticking and he needs to make up for lost time. He plays rejection off SO COOLY. Like he rarely has slip ups but when he gets rejected, he plays it off like it is nothing.
Now of course, his case is extreme since he went to an All Boys high school but you have to understand why some of these PUAs end up being virgins until a later age.
There’s so little you untarsdend. Even the reason why Roissy would refuse to post on your blog. Why should he give value(aka publicity) to someone who doesn’t deserve it. (AKA You). However, I’m feeling more generous, so I’ll grace you. Roissy has enriched many lives with his posts. You believe that attitude he talks about is mistreating others around you. but in actuality, it’s projecting your self-worth. It’s not contempt he feels for beta males. It’s actually pity, his harsh words towards them are what we call tough love . It’s the premier way men use to inspire each other.To voraciously pursue women is Roissy’s cup of tea. Hell It’s a lot of men’s cup of tea. Men that do not want to pursue women in the manner he does, they choose not to. However, Roissy’s techniques work. Which is why he has an effing reading base, and keeps writing. Also, that is why that double standard exists between promiscuous men and women. A male who has sex a lot is MORE attractive to women, cause his demeanor will express that. And not a lot of people will be interested in banging a girl that had a foursome with a bunch of frat guys in a public bathroom and. a girl that has a different guy in her bed every night, etc. That is why there is no discussion, but there is PLENTY of information on it.Objectifying women and predator lifestyles are just words with bad connotations that you can’t justify, or prove that they’re unhealthy.You are under informed and highly judgmental, typical blogger, and are you a republican by chance? Haven’t read any of your posts by the way.Hope this helps.
It helps to have a mentor that has been in your shoes before, and knows exactly how you need to change from who you used to be, because he also had to make that change. It helps to know that you aren’t the only one in the world who was a late virgin and managed to turn your life around.
What is it with people that feel the need to rub it in our faces about losing virginity later? I think it’s totally possible for someone who just picks up tennis as an adult but is dedicated to it, to be an infinitely better teacher than someone who was good as a kid but didn’t have to put in as much effort to be good as an adult. I would choose the late-bloomer as the instructor, because he, not the one who was young and talented, has the ability to understand what needs to be done to teach those with less talent.
If you grow up, and during high school, you didn’t have much luck, what are you supposed to do, just accept your lot in life and realize that you’ll never be anyone’s mentor? I have noticed that one of the dreams of people with poor social skills is to improve, and then teach their skills to others.
I do not believe that someone who had innate social skills and drive to socialize as a kid has the perspective to be able to teach someone who did not grow up this way. Only someone who has previously sucked at it can explain how to go from fail to win.
It is interesting how this manifests in different ways besides socializing. Even if you learn music for the first time as an older teen or adult, you can train yourself to have a good sense of pitch with enough practice. I would rather learn from someone who had to train for their good musical ear, than someone who was taught piano and violin at the age of 2 years old. I have musical talent, and I can’t explain it. I have tried to teach people music but I have utterly failed because I have no concept of how someone without my musical ear perceives things. Same goes with meeting women, I think.
PUA and Game Forums are a big farce. They would like you to believe everyone is getting laid but you. I can promise you, with Western women as asexual as they are; there are lots of older virgin guys around. This is untold dirty little secret nobody talks about.
I agree with you that sometimes someone who has just learned something can teach it better than someone that has been doing it for a long time and is a “natural”. The problem I see is that most of the people that write books about PUA, just recently learned about it themselves. These people are hardly the experts they profess themselves to be. If they are bragging too much you can be sure they are not getting anything! Typically the most successful people in Pick up and Seduction don’t write about it because they do see any reason to, because there is no money in it and there is no reason to waste their time bragging. You are right; many naturals have been doing it for many years and have internalized their methods.
You are correct; it is never too late to become good with women. I myself am better now than I was 10 or 20 years ago, but I should be. Most of it is learning what works well, getting comfortable with who you are, and being able to present yourself to the girl in a way that will produce attraction. The reason, I have come down hard on PUA is because they teach so much false and stupid shit. They give guys unrealistic expectations that any guy can get any girl if they just get good enough at Game! Absolutely False!